A step in the right direction

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Dropdeadqt
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A step in the right direction

Post by Dropdeadqt » 10 May 2012, 11:26

Whatever his other failings are and however bad it all is, at least this is something positive...

http://www.news.com.au/world/obama-voic ... 6351565380

P.S. Our PM on the other hand can go suck a pair of cow nuts.
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Kayleb
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Re: A step in the right direction

Post by Kayleb » 10 May 2012, 11:31

I think he's just looking for more votes. Something this controversial in the US so soon to the election, why didn't he support it sooner??

Why are people allowed to marry pets but same sex couples? WHAT IF IT WAS A GAY CAT?? Someone call TodayTonight!
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Philondra
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Re: A step in the right direction

Post by Philondra » 10 May 2012, 11:55

Well, a couple things precipitated this news coming out now.

1. The VP accidentally let slip that he (meaning the VP himself) was in favor of gay marriage, essentially forcing Obama's hand.
2. In Tuesday, there was a presidential primary in North Carolina, which also had on the ballot an amendment to constitutionally ban same-sex marriage -- which passed by a 60-something to 30-something margin.

This makes NC the 29th state (out of 50) to constitutionally (!) ban same sex marriage. Not just a law, they inscribed it in their constitutions. Gay marriage is legal in a total of eight states and Washington DC. Of those, five are in the northeast (where I'm from), the one in the midwest was decided by the supreme court of the state, and the other two just passed this year and are being challenged by referendums in the fall.

I mean FFS, gay marriage is legal in ARGENTINA. You know, the place that was a dictatorship until 20-odd years ago.

Also, I would direct your attention to the last page in this survey, which is a survey of attitudes in Mississippi toward a variety of subjects. The TLDR of it is that 46% of Mississippians are AGAINST INTERRACIAL MARRIAGE.

http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/pdf/ ... 407915.pdf

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Dropdeadqt
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Re: A step in the right direction

Post by Dropdeadqt » 10 May 2012, 12:00

LOL MISSISSIPPIIIIPIPIPIPIPIPIPIPIIP /fart

So much Hickism over yonder cleatus...
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Cartollomew
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Re: A step in the right direction

Post by Cartollomew » 10 May 2012, 12:08

Kayleb wrote:I think he's just looking for more votes.
It's actually likely to cost his approval overall, but he's shooting to retain the youth vote. I can't imagine large tracts of enthused 18-25s coming out to vote for Romney, but the real risk is that the people who voted for him in 2008 will be too jaded to even bother voting this year.

(As an aside: this is why making it mandatory to show up is a good thing)

@Alley
Yeh, it's refreshing for a major political leader to step up and say this, but note the careful (very Obama-esque) wording:
El Prez wrote:Over the course of several years as I have talked to friends and family and neighbours, when I think about members of my own staff who are in incredibly committed monogamous relationships - same-sex relationships - who are raising kids together, when I think about those soldiers or airmen or marines or sailors who are out there fighting on my behalf and yet feel constrained, even now that 'don't ask, don't tell' is gone, because they are not able to commit themselves in a marriage, at a certain point I've just concluded that for me personally it is important for me to go ahead and affirm that I think same sex couples should be able to get married.
(emphasis mine)

This is a personal stance, not a political one. Unfortunately, Obama is capable of understanding the difference (where Dubbya wasn't) - his personal stance is supposed to be held separate to his political position.

I guess you could look at it this way:
Obama's position is that same sex marriage should be allowed.
The President's position is that the federal government shouldn't interfere and that this is a matter for the states.

I kind of hope I'm wrong though.

As a whole other issue, there's the question of how (or whether) the federal government could even make this happen - it technically is within the states' jurisdiction (though that hasn't stopped them before, there are ways around it).
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Cartollomew
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Re: A step in the right direction

Post by Cartollomew » 10 May 2012, 12:10

Philondra wrote:Also, I would direct your attention to the last page in this survey, which is a survey of attitudes in Mississippi toward a variety of subjects. The TLDR of it is that 46% of Mississippians are AGAINST INTERRACIAL MARRIAGE.
Which is one of the reasons people are getting frustrated with Obama's lukewarm stance on the issue - his own fucking parents had an interracial marriage. Had those discriminatory laws not been repealed, he wouldn't even be here. Ho-hum.

Edit:
I've changed my mind (from the above post). I think this is utterly pissweak.

I mean, nobody from the left of politics thinks Obama is anything other than a centrist (and everyone everywhere should ignore the bullshit rhetoric that Fox'n'Friends spout about socialism etc etc), but this is a civil rights issue and it's well past time it was addressed. At the federal issue.

The federal government addressed this for interracial marriage and overrode the states. They should do the same here. Stop fucking about and take a proper stand. If you lose your election over it, all the better to mobilise a base for the next time around.
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dukkha
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Re: A step in the right direction

Post by dukkha » 10 May 2012, 14:23

It's a step forward, which is nice, but yeah... not a huge one. Mind you, I'm pretty sure that any federal law allowing gay marriage would need to go through Congress, rather than via Presedential order and there's no chance in hell it would pass the Republican controlled house, or avoid a filibuster in the Senate, so Obama may just realise it's impossible politically at the moment and therefore is avoiding the fight. And having the president openly say he's in favour is a pretty massive symbolic victory. That being said, it would be bloody nice if the left (and admittedly Obama is center, not left) would stop avoiding the fights. There's a point at which conciliation isn't effective and instead just looks like (accurately) weakness, and I'm pretty sure we passed that point (in Aus and the US) many, many years ago.

The fact that there are still so many people against inter-racial marriage really makes me sad about our species. Come on folks, we had that fight, you lost, the world did not get worse... chill.

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Cartollomew
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Re: A step in the right direction

Post by Cartollomew » 10 May 2012, 16:05

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Matt Bors has his moments.
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Re: A step in the right direction

Post by Rathollorn » 15 May 2012, 17:13

As I understand the absurd US legal system
(a) if you are married in one state another state has to acknowledge it (full faith and credit or some such nonsense)
(b) the constitution is silent on the issue of marriage meaning the Supreme Court could strike down any federal law regarding same sex marriage be it for or against (those powers not apportioned to the Congress shall remain the province of the several states or something to that effect)

So while states can stop you being married in their area, they can't fail to recognise that you are married if you move into their area. No idea if that works in practice.

If Obama came out and said he was against the banning of same sex marriage he'd face massive uproar from state governors for interfering with state rights.

Messed up. Won't get put 'right' until everyone over 50 is dead, progressive changes happen with demographic shift sadly (very slowly).
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